Apple Epic Trial

App Store chief argues the virtues of Apple's walled garden

Matt Fischer took the stand in the fourth day of testimony in Epic v. Apple.

App Store chief argues the virtues of Apple's walled garden

Matt Fischer is the current App Store vice president and reports directly to longtime executive Phil Schiller.

Photo: David Paul Morris/Getty Images

Apple isn't expected to start building its official defense in the antitrust fight with Epic Games until the week after next, but one of its key executives at the heart of the dispute began laying the groundwork in court on Thursday.


Matt Fischer, the current App Store vice president who reports directly to longtime executive Phil Schiller, took the stand in Oakland as an Epic witness to answer questions about the App Store business model, as well as its role in the broader iOS operating system. Fischer is arguably the most high-profile Apple employee on the witness list outside Schiller and other members of Apple's executive leadership, and his testimony provides part of the foundation for the company's justification of its App Store commission.

So far, Apple counsel has revealed its strategies through opening arguments and at times aggressive cross-examination of Epic witnesses, including CEO Tim Sweeney and a number of third-party game industry executives. That's involved comparing iOS and the App Store to the console game ecosystems of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, and suggesting that game makers are just fine reaching iOS customers through cloud streaming and mobile web browsers if they don't like Apple's policies.

But Fischer provided the company's first robust rationalization for many of the App Store's more controversial policies. He called the store "incredibly unique" in the benefits it provides to consumers and developers and steadfastly defended it against claims that Apple overlooks fraud. That, in turn, justifies the commission Apple collects and the restrictions it imposes.

"We work really hard to make the App Store a marketplace that's attractive to both customers as well as to developers," Fischer testified. "I might be biased, but I certainly l think that what we do is incredibly unique, and I certainly have not seen any marketplace that distributes apps or games do what we're doing in terms of providing marketing and editorial support like this to developers."

The key takeaway from day four is that the future of this trial could very well hinge on how Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers perceives the true purpose of the App Store. Is it a level playing field designed to protect user privacy and security and take only its fair share? Or is it an increasingly byzantine pillar of Apple's walled garden, one preoccupied with chasing profit and marred by inconsistently applied and ever-changing rules? Fischer, and Apple by extension, would very much like it to be seen as the former. Epic, of course, the latter.

Central to this characterization will be how Apple justifies keeping out competing game-streaming and subscription apps, like Microsoft's Xbox Game Pass and Google Stadia. That was the focus of a rather grueling cross-examination of Epic witness and Xbox Vice President Lori Wright on Wednesday. Another factor will be whether Fischer and others at Apple can successfully downplay or dismiss concerns of special treatment, like the deals Apple has cut with Amazon in the past to reduce its commissions for streaming video apps.

Fischer did his part in that regard, when he was asked outright by Apple lawyer Jay Srinivasan whether any developer receives special treatment. "The App Store review guidelines apply equally to all developers," Fischer replied. He also commented on the notion that Apple privileges its own apps over those of competitors, saying, "We have promoted apps that are competitive to Apple apps since before I joined the App Store team in 2010, and we continue to not only distribute but to feature and promote apps that are competitive to Apple apps in the store. We do this all the time."

Epic lawyer Katherine Forrest spent much of her time questioning Fischer by trying to poke holes in Apple's security justification, which the company has used to deny alternative payment processing systems that could, as Epic's did, bypass the App Store's fees. Forrest listed more than a dozen companies that use their own payment processing systems, companies like PayPal-owned Braintree and Amazon, that are allowed to do so because they process transactions of non-digital goods, of which Apple does not take a 30% cut.

Fischer said he could not recall any study Apple conducted on the security or privacy of any third-party payment system relative to Apple's. Later, during cross-examination, Fischer asserted he is in fact not responsible for security, privacy, fraud or app review.

Fischer confirmed to Epic that Apple has in the past given certain developers exclusive access to APIs and other privileges, after use of the term "whitelisted" was shown in emails related to Hulu's use of a not-yet-released API for canceling and refunding consumer subscriptions. During cross examination, Fischer disputed the term whitelisting, going so far as to call it "offensive," and later claimed access to such features was part of an ongoing testing process conducted through its TestFlight program.

"In this particular case, it was something we were testing with a few companies to see how this feature would perform, with the intention that, if it performed well, we would roll it out to all developers," Fischer argued.

Fischer, as the first Apple employee to be cross-examined by Apple counsel, used his time in front of Srinivasan to promote the App Store as a fair marketplace that goes above and beyond what other app stores do to support developers. Fischer described his early relationship with Epic, during the years the developer made the Infinity Blade trilogy of iOS games, and later when Fischer worked with Epic to promote a holiday Fortnite skin in the winter of 2018. He said Apple gave Epic valuable onstage time during its developer conferences to promote the games.

"Did Epic pay Apple for any of that support?" Fischer was asked. "No, they did not," he said. Fischer also said Apple was willing to change its rules at Epic's request, including when it began allowing in-app gifting for Fortnite, a feature Fischer said it enabled for all developers. "When we make a change, we want to make a change that applies equally to all developers," Fischer said.

The App Store chief also shed light on how Apple came to the conclusion it would not charge certain app makers a 30% fee if they produced a physical good or service, compared to a digital one like Epic and other game developers.

"The decision was made that for an app that sells physical goods and services, it didn't make sense for Apple to earn a commission as part of that, because we ultimately didn't know if that good or service would be delivered to the end user," he said, using the example of an Uber ride or an Amazon package ordered through an iPhone. Apple does not take a cut of those purchases and allows those developers to use their own payment systems.

Epic has taken issue with this distinction, saying it unfairly penalizes competing software distributors while exempting companies that make use of much of the same Apple technology and platform benefits. But Fischer cast the decision as another reason Apple keeps tight control over its ecosystem, because it's concerned primarily with whether users are receiving what they paid for when they buy something that is primarily experienced on the iPhone itself, such as an in-game purchase in Fortnite.

"[Apple in-app payment] in its simplest form is a way to sell digital content within an app. But actually it's a lot more complicated than that," Fischer argued, saying it "enables the safe and frictionless delivery of digital goods from a developer to a user."

That argument — that the App Store's control over digital purchases is for the good of the platform and not a profit ploy — will likely be one Apple and its lawyers fall back on as the trial moves forward.

Fintech

Judge Zia Faruqui is trying to teach you crypto, one ‘SNL’ reference at a time

His decisions on major cryptocurrency cases have quoted "The Big Lebowski," "SNL," and "Dr. Strangelove." That’s because he wants you — yes, you — to read them.

The ways Zia Faruqui (right) has weighed on cases that have come before him can give lawyers clues as to what legal frameworks will pass muster.

Photo: Carolyn Van Houten/The Washington Post via Getty Images

“Cryptocurrency and related software analytics tools are ‘The wave of the future, Dude. One hundred percent electronic.’”

That’s not a quote from "The Big Lebowski" — at least, not directly. It’s a quote from a Washington, D.C., district court memorandum opinion on the role cryptocurrency analytics tools can play in government investigations. The author is Magistrate Judge Zia Faruqui.

Keep Reading Show less
Veronica Irwin

Veronica Irwin (@vronirwin) is a San Francisco-based reporter at Protocol covering fintech. Previously she was at the San Francisco Examiner, covering tech from a hyper-local angle. Before that, her byline was featured in SF Weekly, The Nation, Techworker, Ms. Magazine and The Frisc.

The financial technology transformation is driving competition, creating consumer choice, and shaping the future of finance. Hear from seven fintech leaders who are reshaping the future of finance, and join the inaugural Financial Technology Association Fintech Summit to learn more .

Keep Reading Show less
FTA
The Financial Technology Association (FTA) represents industry leaders shaping the future of finance. We champion the power of technology-centered financial services and advocate for the modernization of financial regulation to support inclusion and responsible innovation.
Enterprise

AWS CEO: The cloud isn’t just about technology

As AWS preps for its annual re:Invent conference, Adam Selipsky talks product strategy, support for hybrid environments, and the value of the cloud in uncertain economic times.

Photo: Noah Berger/Getty Images for Amazon Web Services

AWS is gearing up for re:Invent, its annual cloud computing conference where announcements this year are expected to focus on its end-to-end data strategy and delivering new industry-specific services.

It will be the second re:Invent with CEO Adam Selipsky as leader of the industry’s largest cloud provider after his return last year to AWS from data visualization company Tableau Software.

Keep Reading Show less
Donna Goodison

Donna Goodison ( @dgoodison ) is Protocol's senior reporter focusing on enterprise infrastructure technology, from the 'Big 3' cloud computing providers to data centers. She previously covered the public cloud at CRN after 15 years as a business reporter for the Boston Herald. Based in Massachusetts, she also has worked as a Boston Globe freelancer, business reporter at the Boston Business Journal and real estate reporter at Banker & Tradesman after toiling at weekly newspapers.

Image: Protocol

We launched Protocol in February 2020 to cover the evolving power center of tech. It is with deep sadness that just under three years later, we are winding down the publication.

As of today, we will not publish any more stories. All of our newsletters, apart from our flagship, Source Code, will no longer be sent. Source Code will be published and sent for the next few weeks, but it will also close down in December.

Keep Reading Show less
Bennett Richardson

Bennett Richardson ( @bennettrich ) is the president of Protocol. Prior to joining Protocol in 2019, Bennett was executive director of global strategic partnerships at POLITICO, where he led strategic growth efforts including POLITICO's European expansion in Brussels and POLITICO's creative agency POLITICO Focus during his six years with the company. Prior to POLITICO, Bennett was co-founder and CMO of Hinge, the mobile dating company recently acquired by Match Group. Bennett began his career in digital and social brand marketing working with major brands across tech, energy, and health care at leading marketing and communications agencies including Edelman and GMMB. Bennett is originally from Portland, Maine, and received his bachelor's degree from Colgate University.

Enterprise

Why large enterprises struggle to find suitable platforms for MLops

As companies expand their use of AI beyond running just a few machine learning models, and as larger enterprises go from deploying hundreds of models to thousands and even millions of models, ML practitioners say that they have yet to find what they need from prepackaged MLops systems.

As companies expand their use of AI beyond running just a few machine learning models, ML practitioners say that they have yet to find what they need from prepackaged MLops systems.

Photo: artpartner-images via Getty Images

On any given day, Lily AI runs hundreds of machine learning models using computer vision and natural language processing that are customized for its retail and ecommerce clients to make website product recommendations, forecast demand, and plan merchandising. But this spring when the company was in the market for a machine learning operations platform to manage its expanding model roster, it wasn’t easy to find a suitable off-the-shelf system that could handle such a large number of models in deployment while also meeting other criteria.

Some MLops platforms are not well-suited for maintaining even more than 10 machine learning models when it comes to keeping track of data, navigating their user interfaces, or reporting capabilities, Matthew Nokleby, machine learning manager for Lily AI’s product intelligence team, told Protocol earlier this year. “The duct tape starts to show,” he said.

Keep Reading Show less
Kate Kaye

Kate Kaye is an award-winning multimedia reporter digging deep and telling print, digital and audio stories. She covers AI and data for Protocol. Her reporting on AI and tech ethics issues has been published in OneZero, Fast Company, MIT Technology Review, CityLab, Ad Age and Digiday and heard on NPR. Kate is the creator of RedTailMedia.org and is the author of "Campaign '08: A Turning Point for Digital Media," a book about how the 2008 presidential campaigns used digital media and data.

Latest Stories
Bulletins